|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Vesta Opalus
Ostrakon Agency
Gallente Federation
614
   |
Posted - 2015.04.17 04:19:00 -
[1] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Or nerf Assaults. The imbalance is plain as day from my POV; the tougher the fight, the more obvious the imbalance. I can only imagine that kill/spawn efficiency data is mirroring usage data. It shouldn't take much. Dialing back Assault mobility would be a great start, and might just do the trick.
I think the only assault with too much mobility is the minmatar, and that mobility nerf could be accomplished by nerfing its stam gain (and buffing amarr scout base speeds) |
Vesta Opalus
Ostrakon Agency
Gallente Federation
618
|
Posted - 2015.04.17 16:22:00 -
[2] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Or nerf Assaults. The imbalance is plain as day from my POV; the tougher the fight, the more obvious the imbalance. I can only imagine that kill/spawn efficiency data is mirroring usage data. It shouldn't take much. Dialing back Assault mobility would be a great start, and might just do the trick. I think the only assault with too much mobility is the minmatar, and that mobility nerf could be accomplished by nerfing its stam gain (and buffing amarr scout base speeds) The MN Assault is no doubt the worst offender. MN Assault speed aside, the class as a whole is moving too fast. If an Assault is packing more HP than a Commando, why is he still moving so much faster than a Commando? If an Assault is running straight biotics and out-sprinting Scouts, why is doing so with > 2x the HP of a Scout? Assaults are simultaneously attaining High HP and High Mobility. There should be more of a tradeoff. Not just for MN Assaults. For all Assaults. For everyone. Uparmored Scouts included. Be fast or be tanked. Not both. HP and Mobility should be inversely related. CurrentMax HP: Heavy > Assault > Commando > Logi > Scout Mobility: Heavy < Commando < Logi < Assault < Scout SuggestedMax HP: Heavy > Commando > Assault > Logi > Scout Mobility: Heavy < Commando < Assault < Logi < Scout How To* Add a Low Slot to Commandos (all races, all tiers) * Swap Logi and Assault base movement speeds * Slightly increase mobility penalties for vanilla and reactive plates * Add slight mobility penalties to ferroscale * Amplify plate penalties when worn by Light Frames * Reduce plate penalties when worn by Heavy Frames
Back to your point, can't speak to Stamina, but I believe MN Assault base movement was entered in error and should be reduced from 5.30 to 5.20. Here are the numbers.
Min stamina regen is 2.5x the regen of gallente and caldari assaults, and 1.6x (fuzzier on this number) the regen of amarr assault. I think this is a pattern that repeats on all the min suits, but is only really noticable and overpowered when paired with the high speeds of min assaults and min scouts.
As for commandos, they just need a buff somehow all around, they should be premier damage dealers, but right now they are too squishy and their damage bonus does not make up for that in any meaningful way, and for the amarr commando the damage bonus is way outclassed by the heat bonus the ak.0 assault gets (which results in a far bigger damage bonus).
I think the real problem with assault HP is that HP modules still have no stacking penalties for some reason. This is just mind boggling to me, if there were stacking penalties we wouldnt see all these 1.1k health assaults running around breaking the game mechanics by stacking as much health as they can. Meanwhile stacking penalties on HP mods would be an indirect buff for commandos, scouts, AND heavies that arent stacking plates. I dont understand why everything but HP has a stacking penalty, when HP is probably one of the biggest factors in game balance and stacking HP is gamebreaking and boring when alot of people do it on the same team.
Edit: to clarify I'd like to see assaults generally hitting around 600-800 hp, which I think would end up being perfectly fine, scouts should be 300-500, commandos 700-900 or so, heavies 1100-1300 or so. I think the only one that doesnt fit into these numbers are assaults or bricked scouts (which would also be disallowed by diminishing returns and are ineffective anyway), so hurrah? |
Vesta Opalus
Ostrakon Agency
Gallente Federation
620
|
Posted - 2015.04.17 18:25:00 -
[3] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote:... to clarify I'd like to see assaults generally hitting around 600-800 hp, which I think would end up being perfectly fine, scouts should be 300-500, commandos 700-900 or so, heavies 1100-1300 or so. I think the only one that doesnt fit into these numbers are assaults or bricked scouts (which would also be disallowed by diminishing returns and are ineffective anyway), so hurrah? I'd add Logis in there somewhere between Scouts and Assaults, perhaps 400-600 range. The scale makes sense to me, so long as 800HP guys aren't running around at comparable speeds as the 300HP guys. In other words, as HP inclines along the scale Mobility should decline. Increasing plate penalties/drawbacks might work, but we'd have to be careful not to upset intra-class racial balance, overpenalize heavy frames, or underpenalize Light Frames (no one wants another round of Assault Lite). I think it'd be safer to first swap Assault and Logi speeds, then tune HP modules should additional tuning be warranted.
I dont think logis belong in the speed>hp continuum, and to a lesser extent commandos dont really fit directly into it either. Reason being they are balanced by other factors. Commandos (should) have a significant damage advantage over other classes when using light weapons, and Logis have massive force multipliers when using equipment effectively. Both of these factors push them outside a raw hp vs. speed scale.
In addition scouts see kind of the same effect, since their real advantage is dampening and scanning, not necessarily speed. In fact if we're talking about raw hp/speed/killing power, assaults clearly dominate scouts across the board, since you can fit x2 kincats on any assault suit, have the same number of modules remaining as a scout has base, and still have significantly higher base HP, so scouts dont really belong either. This is why I dont like the hp v. speed scale, because while I agree some classes might need to be toned up or down, I dont agree that it should be a uniform rule across all classes.
Logis are fine as is. They dont need speed buffs.
Commandos are **** right now. Giving them more speed isnt going to fix it.
Scouts are... I dont know, they might actually need another module slot or something. But just giving them more speed or more hp or nerfing assault speed or hp isnt going to make them compete with assaults in an interesting way (i.e. not competing directly, but having a niche to excel in anyway). |
Vesta Opalus
Ostrakon Agency
Gallente Federation
621
|
Posted - 2015.04.17 19:49:00 -
[4] - Quote
IAmDuncanIdaho II wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote:... to clarify I'd like to see assaults generally hitting around 600-800 hp, which I think would end up being perfectly fine, scouts should be 300-500, commandos 700-900 or so, heavies 1100-1300 or so. I think the only one that doesnt fit into these numbers are assaults or bricked scouts (which would also be disallowed by diminishing returns and are ineffective anyway), so hurrah? I'd add Logis in there somewhere between Scouts and Assaults, perhaps 400-600 range. The scale makes sense to me, so long as 800HP guys aren't running around at comparable speeds as the 300HP guys. In other words, as HP inclines along the scale Mobility should decline. Increasing plate penalties/drawbacks might work, but we'd have to be careful not to upset intra-class racial balance, overpenalize heavy frames, or underpenalize Light Frames (no one wants another round of Assault Lite). I think it'd be safer to first swap Assault and Logi speeds, then tune HP modules should additional tuning be warranted. I dont think logis belong in the speed>hp continuum, and to a lesser extent commandos dont really fit directly into it either. Reason being they are balanced by other factors. Commandos (should) have a significant damage advantage over other classes when using light weapons, and Logis have massive force multipliers when using equipment effectively. Both of these factors push them outside a raw hp vs. speed scale. In addition scouts see kind of the same effect, since their real advantage is dampening and scanning, not necessarily speed. In fact if we're talking about raw hp/speed/killing power, assaults clearly dominate scouts across the board, since you can fit x2 kincats on any assault suit, have the same number of modules remaining as a scout has base, and still have significantly higher base HP, so scouts dont really belong either. This is why I dont like the hp v. speed scale, because while I agree some classes might need to be toned up or down, I dont agree that it should be a uniform rule across all classes. Logis are fine as is. They dont need speed buffs. Commandos are **** right now. Giving them more speed isnt going to fix it. Scouts are... I dont know, they might actually need another module slot or something. But just giving them more speed or more hp or nerfing assault speed or hp isnt going to make them compete with assaults in an interesting way (i.e. not competing directly, but having a niche to excel in anyway). I have to disagree with you regarding a scout's advantage is not in speed - it absolutely should be one of their strengths. They are the light class. They must play to their strengths, which should include mobility. The things I can do with a Minja at ~300HP and 10.38 m/s is absolutely a niche playstyle. I base my tactics around it.
Yes, but again minja's have the same OP stamina regen as the min assault, and the less well endowed scouts compete directly with min/cal/gal assault in terms of speed and stamina regen, which forces them to compete in EWAR instead since they just dont have enough slots to compete.
Im not sure if this is intended or not, and I definately think min assault needs its mobility nerfed (some say speed, I'd like to start with stamina, who knows), and amarr scout needs its mobility improved with a speed boost, and I think cal/gal scouts need stamina boosts. |
Vesta Opalus
Ostrakon Agency
Gallente Federation
625
|
Posted - 2015.04.18 03:15:00 -
[5] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote:... I definately think min assault needs its mobility nerfed (some say speed, I'd like to start with stamina, who knows) Just watched a 600HP MN Assault hop 50ft into the air literally 5x in a row. At maximum, he should get 2 of those ridiculous (4x myo) jumps before his stamina pool is completely drained. So yes, you're right, nerf MN Assault stamina pool. Also, reduce its base movement from 5.30 to 5.20 to normalize comparative speed progressions. Finally, swap Assault and Logi movement speeds.
Pretty sure nobody in any suit can jump more than 3 times in a row without stopping for a few seconds for stam regen, so Ill take your comments with a grain of salt.
|
Vesta Opalus
Ostrakon Agency
Gallente Federation
625
|
Posted - 2015.04.18 03:48:00 -
[6] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote:... I definately think min assault needs its mobility nerfed (some say speed, I'd like to start with stamina, who knows) Just watched a 600HP MN Assault hop 50ft into the air literally 5x in a row. At maximum, he should get 2 of those ridiculous (4x myo) jumps before his stamina pool is completely drained. So yes, you're right, nerf MN Assault stamina pool. Also, reduce its base movement from 5.30 to 5.20 to normalize comparative speed progressions. Finally, swap Assault and Logi movement speeds. Pretty sure nobody in any suit can jump more than 3 times in a row without stopping for a few seconds for stam regen, so Ill take your comments with a grain of salt. I don't make stuff up, friend. Watched it with my own eyes, and it was pretty obnoxious. Jump. Fire mass driver. Land. Rinse/Repeat x5. He may have paused briefly between bounds, but if he was, it was an extremely brief pause. He was running an Assault mk.0. Might've been 3x myo-fibs, but I'm pretty sure he was running 4x given the height he was reaching and the damage he was doing to himself. No way to tell whether or not he was running a CardReg, but I'll be glad to test both with and without. I just respec'd out of MN Assault, so I can't reverse engineer his exact suit. Closest thing I have is a 4x myo CalScout. Will test with and without CardRegs. (I'm wondering if his stamina was partially recharging during his descents.)
I dont think the stam regen mechanic works like that, pretty sure it pauses if you are jumping or falling regardless of how long it takes for you to hit ground. |
|
|
| |
|